Report: BYU Won’t Count as ACC Power Five Opponent

By Kevin Kelley -

The ACC is set to rubber-stamp their eight-game football scheduling format today, and that includes a requirement to play a power five non-conference opponent each year beginning in 2017.

With that requirement, ACC teams will need to schedule a game against a team from the Big 12, Big Ten, Pac-12 or SEC. Notre Dame will also fulfill the power five requirement.

BYU, also an Independent like Notre Dame, will reportedly not count as a power five game for ACC teams.

It’s hard to understand why BYU won’t count as a power five game while at the same time the conference is mulling playing non-conference games against each other.

If strength of schedule is the biggest factor, BYU offers more than at least four teams that finish at the bottom of the standings in any given season. And that goes for the other power conferences as well.

In the last ten seasons, BYU is 87-40 overall and has an average Sagarin rating of 31.3. Here is there yearly breakdown with Sagarin rating in parantheses:

  • 2013 – 8-5 (35)
  • 2012 – 8-5 (26)
  • 2011 – 10-3 (34)
  • 2010 – 7-6 (45)
  • 2009 – 11-2 (15)
  • 2008 – 10-3 (32)
  • 2007 – 11-2 (17)
  • 2006 – 11-2 (13)
  • 2005 – 6-6 (55)
  • 2004 – 5-6 (41)

Of course there may be other factors at play here, such as BYU possessing their own television rights. Also, many teams likely don’t want to travel to Provo for a return game.

The SEC has also added a strength of schedule requirement just like the SEC. They have not yet made an official statement on BYU counting as a power five opponent, but Brett McMurphy says an SEC spokesman told him the Cougars would not count.

Whatever your position on this issue, the fact remains that ACC and SEC teams can and should schedule future games against BYU. Although they won’t satisfy the power five requirement, the Cougars still provide a challenge and will help schedule strength.

Comments (36)

I’ll bet you that the other P5 conferences will go the same way the ACC/SEC are going with BYU.
In a way, I have to sympathize with those BYU fans who are upset with this whole idea of independence.

This is like watching blind mice scramble for cheese. Meanwhile, I’ll be in a stadium somewhere watching an FCS, d2 or d3 game being played by REAL student athletes.

All of the so called Power Conferences have stayed away from BYU for years. The problem for all the power schools is there is always a good chance BYU will beat them. Loosing to BYU hurts them a lot more than beating BYU helps them. The power schools don’t want to play out of conference games that they might loose, so they schedule easy opponents to pad the win column. Hard to win a national title when you get beat by BYU.

Interesting position for the ACC to take as one could make a legitimate argument that BYU is better than half the teams in the ACC.

Watching these power conferences operate has a keystone cops feel to it, doesn’t it?

The playoff committee should require 10 games against top 5 conferences to qualify. I don’t care if it’s 8+2 or 9+1, but that should be the minimum for consideration.

it would be much better if they just evaluate the entire body of work without flipping in arbitrary rules. out-of-conference games of Boise St., BYU, Central Florida, and Northern Illinois is better than out of conference games of Indiana, Colorado, Kansas, and Wake Forest

What if let’s say Boise St from the MWC goes 12-0 and wins three OOC games against top 10 completion plus beats a couple of top 25 teams from it’s own conference. Should the playoff committee not consider them just because they don’t play 10 Power teams? I know this is not likely to happen but it is not impossible!

Agreed with article – scheduling BYU still boosts SOS. I’d advise BYU to stay away from any ACC negotiations going forward. Not worth it unless they come to Provo.

As long as BYU continues to win more games than the University of Utah, I am content. Who cares if they are playing against high school teams? But if I felt that “a corrupt, evil as hell, anti-social oligarchy” had somehow wronged me, I would probably spend the waning years of my pitiful life manifesting my frustration online as well.

BYU will never beat Utah again for a loooooooong time. You can schedule the *deleted* JV teams all you want, but the football world knows that BYU can’t beat ANY good team and haven’t since 1990. Hugs! HAHAHAHA!

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I don’t follow BYU, but I follow the Big 12 and I am pretty sure they have beaten some good teams since 1990. Texas, Oklahoma, TCU, Kansas State just in my neck of the woods. I am pretty sure I saw them beat GA Tech and Boise State on ESPN over the last couple of years

Thank you Kevin.
This is disappointing. I’m afraid BYU will be left out in the cold if they can’t get into a good conference in the next couple of years. At this point however, it may be too late, even if they wanted to. Independence has given them a lot of perks that would be hard to give up. If the P5 keep shutting them out, it will not only effect their ability to play in bigger bowls but it will also effect their recruiting ability in years to come.

This political power manipulation fest by the so-called P5 conferences is a clear path to class action antitrust litigation. Evidently these fools think they own all things college football and can do whatever the hell they want with impunity…which is likely to work, until someone takes a severe action to put an end to it. When honor and integrity give way to greed, corruption and power lust, there are only a few ways to correct it, and none of them are fueled by weakness.

BYU FANS may be a litle upset, but really, it doesn’t matter. BYU is a program that win or lose, always looks like they expect to be in the end zone. Class Program, never on NCAA Probation. Other than maybe Duke and Virginia, how many ACC and SEC Teams can make such an honorable claim? Perhaps it is BYU that should be insulted for that more obvious reason. BYU lost by a point to Virginia after a 3 hour near hurricane rain delay huddled in a foot of water at Virginia last year with a new offense, QB and missing a star receiver. Now how would you like to be Virginia representing the ACC coming to Provo on September 20th on the heels of that announcement? BYU having humiliated a much better Georgia Tech Team twice in the last two years and seeing what BYU did to Texas after last year’s close season opening loss to the Cavaliers; I simply can’t imagine a program more set for an absolute butt-kicking. BYU will be loaded for bear and there will be no calling off the dogs after three quarters. BYU will send Virginia home with a message for the ACC. It doesn’t need to be recognized as a P-5 institution, just play better than most of them.

AMEN!! Crush ’em! Leave no doubt. Let your play do the talking. Rise and shout the cougars are out!!

At some point along this road it would seem like some of the teams that have been designated as sub-5 power teams may chose to file a class action anti-trust suit to bring financial fairness back into NCAAF and from this Legal Novice’s perspective have a pretty good case… In BYU’s situation, they may also have a Title VII action playable as well…It’s obvious to me (and I admit I’m a bit biased) that BYU is being targeted for things these decision maker’s don’t like that extend far beyond the true quality of a football program.

It’s time that this self-admiration party that is going on amongst some of these conferences (particularly centered around the Bible Belt) be brought to a halt.

Single or class action, the central theme is collusion with intent to harm financial, but the grounds for such a suit go beyond traditional “financial” damage. Thinking over the BCS years it became apparent to me that a majority of the FBS programs were STATE SPONSORED INSTITUTIONS working in an interstate commerce environment. Now the great thing about ISC is the fact that it is supposed to inhibit the inequalities of unfair competition between the several states. It’s one thing for Ohio to say it’s State University can play at the highest level and fund any shortfalls or support any effort thereto on the grounds that it’s good for Ohio. Same for Michigan, Illinois and Utah. But CFB is still INTERSTATE COMMERCE.

Can Ohio tell North Dakota it isn’t ever going to be allowed to compete at the same level? Can it get away with telling BYU, take your 65,000 seat investment in the game and shove it?

I frankly think that the Burciaga-SCOTUS Ruling (OU and UGA vs the NCAA and ABC Sports) would frown a lot on the P-5 group that is very clearly colluding to exclude competitors across interstate lines, a very clear violation. While Notre Dame is quasi respected as a P-5 buddy the fact is, BYU and Notre Dame are actually the ONLY TWO MAJOR FBS PROGRAMS that have in fact followed the exact letter of the Burciaga Ruling and represented their own interests in marketing and selling their TV media rights independently of a trust of any kind.

So the fact is, the Cougars AND Notre Dame have by every measurable metric a right to not only demand inclusion, a court could in about ten minutes find reason to grant a permanent injunction against the P-5 from acting any further together in any way which potentially inhibits free association. Frankly a solid re-reading of Burciaga and a court could actually find all current Associations that pit one state institution against another or a private institution in another state null and void. That could end conferences until such time as remediation efforts of a reasonable measurement of metrics is crafted to the satisfaction of a court and provides an inclusion path to equal status.

A Court would most surely evaluate the traditional measures of program strength as the basis for metrics. People think the P-5 can freely associate and exclude whom they will….but states do not have that luxury under our constitution. Inasmuch as most major FBS programs first and foremost represent land grant Universities, their states do not get to dictate to the desires of other states or exclude from the group, private institutions domiciled in other states. To do so is completely untenable under the commerce clause. Arguing CFB is not big business and an extension of State Government is not plausible. Mike Leach LOST his lawsuit against Texas Tech in part because he was considered a STATE EMPLOYEE and as such, subject to disciplinary procedures enacted by a STATE institution.

One state cannot impede the interstate commerce or ability of a similar enterprise from competing across ANY state line without an anti-trust exemption. Burciaga-SCOTUS clearly showed that there was NO COMPELLING INTEREST in granting Anti-Trust Relief to the NCAA (and by extension any similar colluding aggregation of entities). So everything reverts back to commerce at a competitive level and invested dedication to the enterprise.

When BYU’s facilities are larger than a majority of FBS programs in both FB and Basketball, when W-L records are considered, when BYU stands as the 13th most ranked program in the last 4 decades, I suspect the court when comparing it to say, Utah or Louisville or Kansas will grand immediate relief to the Cougars. The real question is, what are the P-5 thinking if a group of the major institutions decide to go the legal rout and argue those points under the SCOTUS-Burciaga Umbrella?

To be frank, if the P-5 were smart, they would shut up, accept BYU and perhaps a few other notable programs with big stadiums and the law on their side. They can never win a legal battle on this one without shredding 230 prior years of constitutional and anti-trust law and getting an anti-trust protection passed through Congress. The P-5 is not the NFL. It would never happen. Just take your lumps P-5 and realize, BYU’s 64,000 seat stadium and direct contract with ESPN says they are P-5.

As for the supposedly super Academic ACC – the presidents and commissioner might believe Wake Forest’s 30,000 seat Stadium, and all-time 414-602-33 (.451) record is all > (that means greater than for common core educators) than BYU’s 518-383-26 (.573), but BYU’s #4 best won loss record over the last 4 decades probably says all that and a lot more. I really would not want to get on that Virginia Plane bound for Provo in September of this year. I suspect that loaded and likely Top 25 talent loaded BYU Team will have a message to send back with Virginia on their return trip. Something like 52-6! Just a guess.

BYU has top 25 talent???????? Please say that you are kidding. BYU’s recruiting classes in the last 5 years are a complete DISASTER. BYU has never had the speed or depth to compete on the national stage, never will, especially now. This year’s BYU defense is a total rebuild. They have only ONE decent player returning…..that being Craig Bills. Bronson Kaufusi absolutely sucks and the “brothers” that are replacing last year’s “so-so” BYU defense are scrubs, at best!!!!!! Also, BYU has the worst O-line they’ve ever had and the only decent player they have, Kearsely, is on academic suspension as it stands today. I’ve been gambling on Utah and BYU football for 40+ years and make a fortune betting for and against both teams and I can assure you that BYU is just the same as they’ve always been………pound the bad teams, beat a few OK teams and lose to EVERY great team…….Nothing has changed one iota. If the very talented runner and impressive team leader, Taysom Hill, gets hurt again, BYU will lose almost every game he doesn’t play in, other than MTSU and Savannah St. of course. Hill cannot hit the broad side of a barn with passes over ten yards, so don’t expect BYU to beat the FEW OK teams on their once again PATHETIC schedule in 2014. If Hill stays healthy, the Y will go 8-4 or 9-3. Be grateful that you don’t face my beloved Utes this year and next because the Utes are freak’n LOADED with finally healthy, talented, speedy as hell kids that would beat the tar out of BYU yet AGAIN.

BYU is last century’s creepy act and not a factor in the least in this “new era” of college football, as evidenced by the ACC and SEC’s recent decisions……….


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Mr. L E Deax:

Great post!! Finally someone who makes sense with logic and fact. The course you outline is, i believe, what BYU and all other “outsiders” are left with in light of the arrogant and illegal posture being taken by those who would usurp control of college football. Lead on!!!!

I find it interesting that you post the ridiculous rants of this guy called Romney but delete those who respond… Perhaps you can explain that Kevin…

As for his comment in reply to my comment on this thread his information is totally off… If romney in fact did wager on the BYU/Utah games over the past 40 years as he claims he wouldn’t have “made a bundle” he would be as poor as a church mouse (unless he bet on the Cougars)… The past 42 years show that BYU leads the series with 26 wins against the utes 16.

As for romney’s claim that the utes are loaded this year, while BYU was to have continued its weak recruiting trend… I have to chuckle… ute fans like to compare the star rating and in the 2014 recruiting year BYU got more and better stared athletes (and that doesn’t include the transfers that have moved from successful careers at Stanford, Nebraska and UTEP to play their last year of eligibility at BYU.

BYU shouldn’t have to argue with anyone that they are a Power 5 team according to this ridiculous Casts System that has been set up… Their stats will easily show that in any court of fairness ad I certainly hope that BYU pursues that course sooner rather than later… The illegal activities that the leadership of these conferences are involved in needs to be stopped in its tracks. I think it will eventually happen but today the BOT at BYU are a little too concerned about the whole PC angle… They need an Admiral Perry at the helm vowing to correct this outrage and demanding that the University Attorneys to “Damn the Torpedoes” and storm the federal courts “full speed ahead”…

First of all, I don’t post anything. Users of the site post comments and then when I have time I read them and moderate. I haven’t moderated any comments since Friday.

Second, when a comment is deleted, the replies go with it. Thus those who responded to MR had their comments deleted.

Last, comments are now closed on this post.

Michael Romney..This is not the place for this type of rhetoric. I am sure you can find some other political or religious site to spill hate.

Romney…what is your deal, man? I’ve seen you on so many boards all over the “wwweb” with the same rhetoric and hate-speech. While you’re sometimes clever, and quite knowledgeable of your BYU sports trivia (which is ironic that you would spend so much time learning about an institution and all its subsidiaries that you hate so much), you really should adopt a new cause that can benefit people in a more productive way. You’re really investing way too much energy and time into your agenda.
I got booted from the LDS church 6 years ago, but there is no reason to hold such bitterness and such a vendetta against an entity that brings many people happiness. Whether you believe it or not, leave people alone and let them practice whatever they choose in peace. It’s called religious liberty… and while you tout free speech all the time, your actions are so hypocritical that you loose credibility by trying to convince everyone they are brainwashed and thought-controlled, etc. If you want to be a sports fan and hate on your rival….that’s cool…it’s part of sports and makes being a fan fun. However, when you cross the line to insult someone’s faith and continuously belittle the values and beliefs that are so important to so many people, it exposes something that is hard for anyone to respect. It’s the same thing you constantly accuse Mormons and “the bretheren” of doing. It’s hard to take anything you say seriously when your words are such a blatant double-standard and align so closely with the accusations you throw out there.
I can agree there are a lot of intolerable and shallow-minded BYU fans and adherants to the LDS church, but there are just as many hyper-obnoxious U of U fans, and Mormon-haters. Learn to live in peace, man. Be comfortable with yourself. And let others do what they want to do as well…including following a faith you don’t choose to believe (anymore).

All comments with personal attacks and/or primarily involving religious affiliations have been removed.

Please keep comments on point moving forward. That is, comment about football and schedules, etc. Friendly banter such as “BYU sucks” or “Utah sucks” or “x is better than y because” etc. will remain so long as it doesn’t get nasty, personal, or attack someone’s personal beliefs.

I frequent this website for all things related to CFB scheduling and upcoming scheduling news. I have also found it a great place to post responses to debate these topics as well.This is a great site and I applaud the writers for doing a great job. To those with a different agenda posting here may I suggest finding a new more while hobby. Because those who throw out definitive statements about others after reading a few short words cannot be taken very seriously.

That really didn’t need to get out of hand, this is a football scheduling website, the last thing the owner wants to deal with is personal attacks.

First Off, is an amazing website and wish Mr Kelley all of the success in the world with it.
I have probably watched 10 Notre Dame games over the last couple years…
As a college football fan. If you think teams like BYU & Notre Dame are just in it to win football games you are wrong.
These University presidents are very upfront that they use sports as an avenue to teach people more about their respective faiths. Have people joined the Catholic and Mormon Faiths because of exposure to their teams it on television? Absolutely! That is part of the mission of these independent schools. They don’t try to hide their agendas. Watch the commercials, these two schools advertise for their faiths during games.
There is no room for hate and religious bigotry on this brilliant football website. If you have an ax to grind with any religion, may God bless you as you work through it.

BYU is far too strong a College Football Tradition to be left out of the Top Tier. While I don’t see BYU becoming a full member of any Power 5 conference, It seems to make perfect sense to add BYU as an football only member to the big 12 along with perhaps UNLV (as a full member).

Without getting into the dynamics of fan bases, BYU would be no worse than the 3rd strongest fan base in the big 12. They would have the 3rd largest Stadium behind UT and OU.

UNLV is getting ready to build a new stadium (approx 60,000) that will be like having Jerry World in the entertainment capital of the western hemisphere How could the big 12 not want a piece of that?