The Idaho Vandals and the New Mexico State Aggies will depart the Sun Belt Conference in football after the 2017 season, the conference announced today.
Idaho and New Mexico State both joined the Sun Belt Conference in 2014 for football only after the demise of the WAC in 2012 and one season as FBS Independents in 2013.
Both schools signed four-year agreements to play in the Sun Belt through 2017. Those agreements will expire without renewal.
“This was a strategic decision that was reached following a thorough and complete review of our options,” said Sun Belt Conference and Texas State University President Dr. Denise Trauth. “The Sun Belt’s Presidents and Chancellors strongly believe it is in the best interest of the conference to have a core membership of 10 football teams that are geographically located within the ‘footprint’ of the conference and that these 10 members also compete in all conference sports. This decision, along with the full 12-team membership that goes into place for the 2016-17 season with the addition of Coastal Carolina University, will reduce travel demands and missed class time for all Sun Belt student-athletes – while also furthering the development of regional rivalries within the conference.”
Although it’s a step down to the Football Championship Subdivision (FCS), the Big Sky Conference has extended an invitation to the Idaho football program. The Vandals will weigh that option along with playing as an FBS Independent.
“We are disappointed by the Sun Belt’s decision,” said Idaho president Chuck Staben. “But we are optimistic about the options before us and we are continuing to diligently consider our future affiliation as an opportunity to find the stability and full participation we have not experienced in the Sun Belt. We will make a decision in the coming months.”
New Mexico State’s future is a little more murky. The Aggies could decide to play as an FBS Independent, but it would be harder for them to build a schedule each season.
“We’re disappointed with this outcome, but we respect the decision of the Sun Belt Conference,” said NMSU President Garrey Carruthers. “We appreciate being able to play football in the Sun Belt Conference for the past two years and look forward to continuing in the league for the next two years.”
With Idaho and NMSU out, the Sun Belt Conference will have ten football members in 2018: Appalachian State, Arkansas State, Coastal Carolina, Georgia State, Georgia Southern, UL Lafayette, ULM, South Alabama, Texas State and Troy.
The Sun Belt will also have “serious discussions” about a conference championship game and a “decision will be made in the very near future.”
Football Schedules
This does not make sense from a financial standpoint. With a ten-team line-up you can only have a maximum of 45 conference games. With a 12-team line-up divided into 2 divisions of 6 each, you can have an 8-game schedule for a total of 48 conference games (like the SEC, ACC, Big Ten and Big 12 used to do), or a 9-game schedule for a total of 54 games (like the Pac-12 does now). By cutting the number of conference games the Sun Belt is screwing themselves big time.
Idaho would also screw themselves if they dropped back down to FCS, something which hasn’t been done since 1982, as it would limit their TV exposure.
Somehow I doubt anyone is clamoring to pay top dollar to broadcast Idaho football.
No one is watching Idaho football on TV besides the home team fans of whatever major team they scheduled in Non-Con bodybag games. Last year they played USC and Auburn but those types of games typically only draw the most loyal Trojan or War Eagle fans. Same thing applies to the conference championship game. They won’t get anywhere near the money that the P5 conferences get as they won’t get anywhere near the ratings. The same rules for conference growth that help the SEC don’t apply to the Sun Belt.
incorrect. Those 48 games include 15 games involving the 2 associate members. This means only 33 games with full partners. Even just 8 games with 10 teams means 40 games with full equity partners. That’s a greater than 20% improvement per full SBC school in exposure and 2nd/3rd tier potential. This also impacts building rivalries which can be carried over to other sports like Basketball. Schools will on average play one more (in the “east”) and two more (in the “west”) full members each year in Football.
The Playoff distribution is now a flat $10m per G5 conference, so split 10 ways is better than 12 ways. Same for incentive bonuses if and when won for better placement in G5 by the SBC.
“The Sun Belt’s Presidents and Chancellors strongly believe it is in the best interest of the conference to have a core membership of 10 football teams that are geographically located within the ‘footprint’ of the conference and that these 10 members also compete in all conference sports.”
I wonder what Arkansas-Little Rock and UT-Arlington think about not being part of the “core membership”
Did you just stop at where you quoted and skip the rest of the statement?
“This decision, along with the full 12-team membership that goes into place for the 2016-17 season with the addition of Coastal Carolina University, will reduce travel demands and missed class time for all Sun Belt student-athletes – while also furthering the development of regional rivalries within the conference.”
Yes, it says “full 12-team membership”, but apparently Ark.-LR and UT-Arlington aren’t part of the “core membership”
Classless move by Sun Belt commissioner Karl Benson. It’s his fault NMSU and Idaho are in this boat to begin with. He was the commissioner at the WAC when they tried their brainless powerplay against the MWC to steal BYU. MWC retaliated by stealing Fresno and Nevada, thus starting the demise of the WAC. Benson jumped ship to the Sun Belt just before the WAC completely imploded. If anyone should be dumped it’s that moron.
That is true, but the Sun Belt schools not wanting to make trips from Georgia/Alabama/etc. to New Mexico and Idaho has a lot to do with this too.
Singlewhite,
You forget that NMSU and Idaho left the Sun Belt high and dry a few years back when the WAC came calling? So was that classless of those schools to leave for what they thought were greener pastures? Looks like it bit them in the ass.
I agree! Benson is to blame for this whole stinking mess! Idaho an NWSU should join UMASS, and create a new football conference by inviting 9-11 FCS schools to move up to FBS, I am sure there are more then 20 FCS schools from the West, Midwest and East that would gladly make the jump to FBS!?
Why won’t the Mountain West invite NMSU for all sports? They are not so hot at football but pretty decent in other sports, mainly basketball. What is the hold up there on the half of the MWC?
Idaho would be smart to accept the invitation of the Big Sky, they are already a member for all other (non-football) sports. Football-wise they would be competitive right away and the regional match-ups/increased wins would rally fan support.
As for the 10-team Sun Belt, why not just play 9 conference games (stop scheduling FCS games)? That way there would be a matchup for ever team and a conference championship could be won outright during the season.
The MWC wants nothing to do with NMSU. They have 12 members, and unless they want to add Idaho to have a regional rivalry with Boise State, there is no point in adding them.
Idaho need to return to the Big Sky. That is the only league i n which they have ever been competitive. Idaho is small school with a tiny population base to draw fans from. With no history of consistently winning, they are making the right decision to go back down to the Big Sky and end the hopeless quest to play with the big boys. Doe this mean that their future body bag games continue?
As of now, in coming years I am projecting the Sun Belt to lose Arkansas State, Louisiana-Lafayette, Louisiana-Monroe, and Texas State to C-USA to replace schools departing for the American (UAB, Marshall, Rice, UTEP, Southern Miss, Charlotte), which replace American schools departing for power conferences (Cincinnati and Connecticut for the ACC, and Houston, Memphis, SMU and Temple for the Big 12).
The Sun Belt then could add Liberty from the Big South, James Madison from the CAA, and four Southland schools: Central Arkansas, Lamar, McNeese State and Sam Houston State
The Sun Belt could additionally add two good mid-major basketball schools, UNC-Asheville also from the Big South, and Florida Gulf Coast from the A-Sun (neither of which has football), to have a 16-team line-up, which in basketball would be divided into an East Division consisting of the 8 Eastern Time Zone schools. and a West Division consisting of the 8 Central Time Zone schools. In addition to the two previously mentioned schools in this paragraph, Arkansas-Little Rock and Texas-Arlington would likewise not participate in Sun Belt football as these schools also lack football programs.
Going back to Big Sky football is about the worst thing Idaho could do. It’s been over 30 years since a FBS team dropped to FCS, and with good reason.
This is what will happen (I think):
The Big 12 will take Houston, Memphis, Cincinnati, and Louisville. The ACC will take UConn to replace LOU. The AAC, now down to 7 teams, will have a semi-merger with C-USA. One conference will have: Marshall, ODU, ECU, Charlotte, UCF, USF, FIU, FAU, UAB, SMiss, MTSU, WKU, and Temple and UMass as FB only members. Navy will go back to football independence. The other conference will have NMSU, UTEP, UTSA, UNT, Tulsa, SMU, Rice, LT, and Tulane, and Grand Canyon and UTRGV as non-FB members. Idaho will go to the Big Sky.
As for the remaining WAC members, Seattle will go to the WCC, Cal State Bakersfield to the Big West, Utah Valley to the Big Sky (non-FB), UMKC to the Summit, and Chicago State to the Horizon.
“The Big 12 will take Houston, Memphis, Cincinnati, and Louisville. The ACC will take UConn to replace LOU. The AAC, now down to 7 teams, will have a semi-merger with C-USA. One conference will have: Marshall, ODU, ECU, Charlotte, UCF, USF, FIU, FAU, UAB, SMiss, MTSU, WKU, and Temple and UMass as FB only members. Navy will go back to football independence. The other conference will have NMSU, UTEP, UTSA, UNT, Tulsa, SMU, Rice, LT, and Tulane, and Grand Canyon and UTRGV as non-FB members. Idaho will go to the Big Sky.
As for the remaining WAC members, Seattle will go to the WCC, Cal State Bakersfield to the Big West, Utah Valley to the Big Sky (non-FB), UMKC to the Summit, and Chicago State to the Horizon.”
Some of the projections I have are the same as yours, however, I have different projections for some others:
Cincy and UConn to the ACC as a pair
Houston and Memphis would be joined in moving to the Big 12 by SMU, Temple, BYU and Boise State
The American adds UAB, Marshall, Southern Miss, Rice, UTEP and Charlotte from C-USA
C-USA adds Arkansas State, LA-Lafayette, LA-Monroe and Texas State from the Sun Belt and Eastern Kentucky and Jacksonville State from the FCS OVC
The Sun Belt adds six FCS schools – James Madison from the CAA, Liberty from the Big South, and Central Arkansas, Lamar, McNeese State, and Sam Houston State from the Southland – and two non-football schools – FGCU from the A-Sun and UNC-Asheville from the Big South (both have decent basketball programs)
The WAC will see much change in its membership, but here is how it will go:
The three Central time schools will move to more geographically-appropriate conferences. You got Chi State right, but I see UMKC going to the MVC and UTRGV to the Southland
2 of the true Western schools will leave too – CSUB to the Big West as you mentioned, but Seattle will become the Mountain West’s first ever non-football member (to offset Hawaii’s football-only status); AIr Force will join Boise State in leaving the MWC, in this case for non-football membership in the Patriot League to be with the other service acads. Montana and Montana State take the places of those two in the MWC.
The WAC adds six schools from the D2 ranks – all located in the west and without football except for one.
RMAC schools Colorado Mines (football to Big Sky) and Metro State
Great Northwest schools Alaska-Anchorage, Alaska-Fairbanks (Alaska becomes the last state to have full-time D1 schools), Seattle Pacific and Western Washington
There are many more changes I am projecting, but I can’t be bothered to list them all now.
And don’t be shocked if North Dakota goes to the Summit League, and MVFC for football
There are issues preventing the 2 NDak schools from being in the same conference it seems.
Seattle and the MW don’t go along. Seattle is a small catholic school, while the MW has big public schools that in semi-big markets and don’t care much about academics.
Seattle has several things going for them. Besides the chance to offset Hawaii being FB only, Seattle would represent a new market for the MWC, and thus expanding the footprint
They could adopt the division split for basketball and use the schedule format once used by the SEC and Big 12.
They would probably take the traditional rivals SHSU/SFA over SHSU/Lamar – SHSU and Lamar aren’t that far away, and while SFA is somewhat in the nomansland they are a better regional brand and are a few hours away from Dallas.
The Sun Belt would probably take Lamar because they were in the conference before. It helps to have history.
I meant to post this as a root comment if you know what I mean (not in reply to someone else):
As of now, in coming years I am projecting the Sun Belt to lose Arkansas State, Louisiana-Lafayette, Louisiana-Monroe, and Texas State to C-USA to replace schools departing for the American (UAB, Marshall, Rice, UTEP, Southern Miss, Charlotte), which replace American schools departing for power conferences (Cincinnati and Connecticut for the ACC, and Houston, Memphis, SMU and Temple for the Big 12).
The Sun Belt then could add Liberty from the Big South, James Madison from the CAA, and four Southland schools: Central Arkansas, Lamar, McNeese State and Sam Houston State
The Sun Belt could additionally add two good mid-major basketball schools, UNC-Asheville also from the Big South, and Florida Gulf Coast from the A-Sun (neither of which has football), to have a 16-team line-up, which in basketball would be divided into an East Division consisting of the 8 Eastern Time Zone schools. and a West Division consisting of the 8 Central Time Zone schools. In addition to the two previously mentioned schools in this paragraph, Arkansas-Little Rock and Texas-Arlington would likewise not participate in Sun Belt football as these schools also lack football programs.
Additional info:
The Sun Belt could still have a nine-game conference schedule under my proposed 12-team football alignment as follows:
East:
Appalachian State
Coastal Carolina
Georgia Southern
Georgia State
James Madison
Liberty
West:
Central Arkansas
Lamar
McNeese State
Sam Houston State
South Alabama
Troy
The Sun Belt’s football schools would be organized into regional pairs, all of which would play each other on Thanksgiving:
East: Appalachian State-Coastal Carolina, Georgia Southern-Georgia State, James Madison-Liberty
West: Central Arkansas-McNeese State, Lamar-Sam Houston State, South Alabama-Troy
For interdivision play, each Eastern pair would play 2 of the Western pairs every year, with one pair rotating off the schedule for 2-year stints, such that each East VS. West match-up occurs 4 times over a 6-year period.
And by Thanksgiving, I mean the whole Thanksgiving weekend
Z Man
Wouldn’t it make more sense to take South Alabama or Troy instead of both ULM and ULL. Alabama and Louisiana are roughly the same size and Mobile (USA) is the biggest city by far. Troy has a much richer football history than any of the schools mentioned. I would pick USA and ULL with Troy coming in 3rd. Monroe has a population of 47K and very little football history.
Louisiana Tech wants in-state in-conference rivals, especially after Tulane moved to the American before they could develop a rivalry with them.
La Tech and Tulane were never in the conference together. Tech and Monroe are and hour apart and do not play. They would be ok with ULL but not ULM in the CUSA with them. They recurit the same players
Actually Tech and Tulane spent one year in C-USA together before Tulane moved on
Sure, going back to 10 teams would make better sense than having 11 teams and one non-regional teams playing (I’m giving NMSU the nod for the closeness to Texas State). It saves the east coast universities money from having to travel to the west coast. While this is all good and fun for the Sun Belt now, Benson will get tired of the lost revenue generated by a championship game and will eventually expand the conference to twelve teams. Being an Appalachian State student, the most recent expansion gives us another rival (Battle of Carolina), but further expansion may be tough. Does the conference go out and grab anybody (Eastern Kentucky was a runner-up in the latest)? What happens if the Sun Belt becomes a better brand than C-USA? Does Benson start cherry picking from them? What about teams within moving out? App State originally was fighting for a bid to C-USA. So many “what ifs” and “where next” to speculate.
I will admit, cutting Idaho is reasonable, but maybe keep NMSU and add an EKU to make it 12 teams and the conference championship plays out well.
In several posts above yours I mentioned that as part of the fallout of the ACC and Big 12 raiding the American the Sun Belt would lose its four westernmost full football-playing members – Ark State, Texas State, and both LA schools – to C-USA, while I am projecting EKU going to C-USA at this moment so that both them and WKU can have an in-state in-conference rival.
I am projecting that the CAA’s James Madison, the Big South’s Liberty, and four Southland schools – Central Arkansas, Lamar, McNeese State and Sam Houston State – along with the non-FB schools UNC-Asheville (Big South) and Florida Gulf Coast (A-Sun) will move to the Sun Belt in response to C-USA’s latest raid on the conference. Five Sun Belt schools – FAU, FIU, Middle Tenn, North Texas, and WKU have moved to C-USA since 2013, and if the American takes schools from C-USA again, no doubt C-USA looks again to the Sun Belt for replacements.
After all is said and done, the Sun Belt would have 8 schools in the Eastern Time Zone and 8 in the Central, which would form East and West Division for basketball. In addition to the new non-FB members, AR-Little Rock and TX-Arlington would also not compete in Sun Belt football, leaving the football circuit at 12 members.
Louisville will NOT leave the ACC. When Notre Dame joins in football, Connecticut would be team 16 for ACC.
NMSU to Mountain West makes sense. Take Idaho for the pair.
Louisville being in the ACC is why Cincinnati should be pursuing ACC membership. They would probably bring UConn with them, as ND will never join ACC football.
Actually, if the ACC were to invite Navy for football-only, Notre Dame could finally take the leap. Their annual game with Navy would be protected, they’d get BC, Syracuse, Pitt every year… and probably Georgia Tech, Florida State, and Miami if the divisions were redrawn in this manner: Coastal: ND, Navy, BC, Syr, Pitt, GT, FSU, Miami… Atlantic: Clemson, UNC, NCSU, Duke, Wake, VT, UVa, U of L.
It might 2022, but ND will have to give in to the inevitable. The ACC is working well in all other sports…it would benefit both in the long run.
I would prefer Cincy over UConn, but Cincinnati is Big 12 bound long before another ACC expansion.
Louisville has the feel of a program that’s been with us a long time. I wish it hadn’t of taken losing Maryland to bring them in the fold
At least NMSU has a chance to make it as an independent. They have games against UNM and UTEP that are annual rivalries, and certainly UMass and Army will play ’em home and home. Take the max 2 FCS games, and you’re halfway there. Idaho, if Idaho hangs in there… they can both always play an SEC team on the road many weeks.
Geez! Some of these theories are utterly ridiculous.
1. The ACC is done expanding. Notre Dame is not joining in all sports. Louisville is lucky to have gotten an ACC spot. They aren’t going anywhere.
2. The Big 12 may eventually take Cincinnati and BYU, but that’s it. Houston, SMU, Memphis, Temple, and UConn are staying put.
3. The Sun Belt may pick up two southeastern FCS schools (EKU, JMU are my guesses) to get to 12, but will stop there.
4. The AAC may have to replace Cincinnati eventually. If they do, UMass, Army (football only), Marshall, Old Dominion, and Southern Miss are the only serious candidates, and only one of them gets added. Ohio may be a very long shot contender.
5. NM State may have a slim chance at CUSA if the AAC has to raid a team, but I can’t imagine anyone besides UL-Lafayette, Ga. State, and Arkansas State would be on their radar.
6. Idaho will have no chance. They need to go back to FCS unless they are willing to accept long-term independent status.
It’s time for the WAC to reinstate Football by inviting New Mexico State, Idaho and UMASS , then invite FCS Schools for an 18-24 team Super Conference, and split them into West, Midwest, East and South Divisions of 6 Schools each, then have a 4-6 team Playoff. I am sure that the WAC can find 15-21 other FCS Schools that would gladly make the jump to FBS like North Dakota State, North Dakota, South Dakota State, Montana, Montana State, Portland State, Sacramento State, Eastern Washington, Illinois State, Northern Iowa, Indiana State, Missouri State, Youngstown State, Liberty University, James Madison, Richmond, Villanova, Jacksonville State, Sam Houston, Lamar, Stephen F. Austin, and the list would only grow for FCS Schools wanting to join the New WAC FBS, and TV Contracts, and Bowl tie-ins could be negotiated.
lol wut? You just want to make an FCS Super Conference and throw in the leftover FBS parts. Portland State and UMass in the same conference… yeah, no.
Really? An 18-24 super conference of FCS teams transitioning to FBS. Seriously! So what’s the payout per team? $50,000? $100,000? Don’t really don’t think that would ever happen!
Lost in all this is the players. If Idaho drops down to FCS only 63 players can have scholarships compared to 85 in FBS. Being let go from the Sun Belt was not Idaho’s decision, and seemingly staying in FBS–even as an independent–is still on the table for Idaho.
I hope Idaho can delay dropping down to FCS (if that’s what the school decides) until 2019 or when all the current players can get through school on scholarship. If not some of the players might get cut. If any of them can transfer to play football at another school it only means a player at that school will get cut to make room. Not a good process.
Thankfully the net number of football players nationwide that can get a scholarship nationwide won’t change. Idaho may drop down but Coastal Carolina moves up. The 22 scholarships Idaho can’t offer now can be offered by CCU.
Nonetheless this is probably a good move for the Sun Belt. As mentioned before Idaho is so far west that travel and time missed from class was burdensome on the other sports. Having Idaho in the conference probably cost the SBC more than it paid. Best to replace the Vandals with another school that is in your geographical footprint.
As for New Mexico State, I think there is some value to MWC if that conference were to bring the Aggies in. They’re far enough from the University of New Mexico and Albuquerque and close enough to El Paso to offer the MWC a new market. The question is whether the Lobos will try to block the Aggies from getting in and/or if they have enough support from the other schools to get in.
Though they have 10 members now the Sun Belt should continue to play eight conference games. In a conference like this one the teams probably make more money off money games at P5 schools than they do with home conference games. Playing only eight conference games frees them up to schedule more money games.
Overall, I can’t really say I blame anybody for this taking place though. Idaho and New Mexico State had to do something when the WAC dissolved. Meanwhile, the Sun Belt wanted to make this work and figured adding these two schools plus a few more would equal to more money for everyone involved. In the end it just didn’t work out and the gain never caught up to the gain.
To maintain independent status in football a team must play at least 5 home games. Idaho can not get 5 teams each year to agree to play in the Kibbie Dome with its 16,000 capacity. Hence they have no chance to remain an FBS independent.
Idaho could either build a new facility or move home games to WSU
a few things 1 the big 12 will never invite byu 2 being in jonesboro ark a-st can never leave the beit c-usa wants markets like geogia st La- Tech Western Ky and Mid tenn will block a-st ULM ULL from c-usa by 2025 the big 12 will be no more so i think in 2025 we will have 4 16 team football conf SEC B10 P12 ACC
how will we get to 16 in each of the major conf by 2025 ACC – i think nd will go in a conf at this time in football what happens to the big 12 Tex goes indy or big ten Okle and Okle st are a package deal for the pac 12 because with Kasas B-ball program k-st will go with kansas iowa st goes to the big 10 the american invites TCU Baylor and texas tech goes to the mth west ACC gets ND west va ciny hou bten gets tex and iowa st p12 gets oklahoma kansas k-st okie- st SEC gets NC State Va tech
I can see UT-Chattanooga leave the SoCon to join the Sun Belt.
UTC isn’t going FBS, they might go to the OVC though, to play in-state rivals