Longest Winning Droughts Over Non-Conference Power Five Teams

By Amy Daughters -

Though establishing requirements for Power Fives to play at least one Power Five opponent out of conference each season is a move in the right direction, some programs will struggle with the new ruling more than others.

For instance, while Alabama hasn’t lost to a power team in the regular season since falling to Florida State in 2007, Tennessee hasn’t won such a game since beating NC State in the 2012 season opener in Atlanta.

Here are the ten teams with the longest winning droughts vs. regular-season, non-conference Power Five opponents. In this case “Power Five” applies to any team that is currently in either the ACC, Big 12, Big Ten, Pac-12 or SEC plus Notre Dame and BYU.

10. Colorado

Most Recent Win: Oct. 2, 2010, 29-27 vs. Georgia
Next Power Five, Non-Conference Game: Sept. 17, 2016, at Michigan

Colorado’s drought needs quantifying by pointing out that it hasn’t played a Power Five team out of conference during the regular season since losing at Ohio State in 2011.

The year of the Buffs last such win, 2010, was also their final season as Big 12 members and their best finish (5-7) since posting a 6-7 record in 2007.

9. Michigan State

Most Recent Win: Sept. 18, 2010, 34-31 vs. Notre Dame
Next Power Five, Non-Conference Game: Sept. 12, 2015, vs. Oregon

Even though Michigan State beat a non-conference Power Five in the postseason as recently as last year, edging Baylor in the Cotton Bowl, it hasn’t beaten a non-Big Ten, Power Five foe in the regular season in four years.

The Spartans got wiped out at Oregon last season and dropped three straight to Notre Dame from 2011-13. Michigan State gets extra credit because its losses all came to ranked teams with the exception of the 2011 Irish.

8. Kansas

Most Recent Win: Sept. 11, 2010, 28-25 vs. Georgia Tech
Next Power Five, Non-Conference Game: Sept. 26, 2015, at Rutgers

Kansas’ last win, of any kind, against a non-conference Power Five came during the first of Turner Gill’s two seasons in Lawrence, a three-point triumph over the then No. 15 Yellow Jackets. It was also the last time the Jayhawks beat a ranked opponent.

Since then, Kansas has dropped games at Duke (2014) and at Georgia Tech (2011). This means there wasn’t a Power Five foe outside of Big 12 play in 2012 or 2013.

7. Kentucky

Most Recent Win: Sept. 4, 2010, 23-16 at Louisville
Next Power Five, Non-Conference Game: Nov. 28, 2015, vs. Louisville

Kentucky’s regular non-SEC, Power Five foe is Louisville, a team it’s dropped four straight to including a 44-40 loss last season.

The Wildcats’ most recent win over a non-SEC team that was in a Power Five conference when the two teams met (remember Louisville was still in the Big East in 2010), came in 2007 when they beat Florida State in the Music City Bowl.

The last time it happened in the regular season was in 2004, when Kentucky knocked off Indiana 51-32 in Lexington.

6. Purdue

Most Recent Win: Sept. 29, 2007, 33-19 vs. Notre Dame
Next Power Five, Non-Conference Game: Sept. 19, 2015, vs. Virginia Tech

Purdue, like Kentucky, earns a spot on the list by virtue of playing the same Power foe each season. In this case it’s Notre Dame, a team the Boilermakers have dropped seven straight to, but won’t face again until 2020-21.

During the streak, Purdue also lost regular-season games to Oregon (2008 and 2009) and fell to Oklahoma State in the 2012 Heart of Dallas Bowl.

5. Washington State

Most Recent Win: Sept. 16, 2006, 17-15 vs. Baylor (in Seattle)
Next Power Five, Non-Conference Game: Sept. 12, 2015, at Rutgers

The last time the Cougars won a regular-season, non-conference game against a Power Five was also the last time they were ranked (No. 25 in the Oct. 29, 2006 AP poll) and the last time they managed a .500 record (6-6).

Losses since then consist of Rutgers (2014), Auburn (2013), BYU (2012), Oklahoma State (2010 and 2008), Notre Dame (2009, in San Antonio, Texas), Baylor (2008) and Wisconsin (2007).

Though it’s not pretty, you have to give Washington State tons of credit for consistently scheduling quality non-conference games, despite its struggles.

4. Texas A&M

Most Recent Win: Sept. 18, 2004, 27-6 vs. Clemson
Next Power Five, Non-Conference Game: Sept. 5, 2015, vs. Arizona State (in Houston, Texas)

Though the Aggies beat a Power Five out of conference as recently as their win at the end of last season vs. West Virginia in the Liberty Bowl, they haven’t won such a game in the regular season in a decade.

As shocking as this is, it’s key to remember that Texas A&M hasn’t even had a non-conference, Power Five on its slate since 2011, its final season in the Big 12 when it got edged by Arkansas.

Regular-season losses in the streak consist of Arkansas (2009, 2010 and 2011), Miami (Fla.) (2007 and 2008) and Clemson (2005).

3. Texas Tech

Most Recent Win: Sept. 18, 2004, 70-35 vs. TCU
Next Power Five, Non-Conference Game: Sept. 19, 2015, at Arkansas

Before last years’ loss to Arkansas in Lubbock, Texas Tech hadn’t squared off with a current Power Five, non-conference foe in the regular season since beating TCU back in 2004.

But the Horned Frogs were C-USA members 10 years ago, pushing the Red Raiders’ win over an opponent that was a Power Five member when the two actually met back to a season earlier, in 2003, when it edged Ole Miss in Oxford.

In Tech’s case it’s not so much that it has suffered a long string of regular-season losses to Power Fives, it’s that it chose not to play them at all.

The Red Raiders’ most recent win over a Power Five in the postseason came in 2013, when they upset No. 16 Arizona State in the Holiday Bowl.

2. NC State

Most Recent Win: Sept. 20, 2003, 49-21 vs. Texas Tech
Next Power Five, Non-Conference Game: Oct. 8, 2016, vs. Notre Dame

Ironically, NC State picked up its last regular-season win vs. a non-ACC, Power Five (over Texas Tech) just a week before the Red Raiders earned their most recent such victory at Ole Miss.

The Wolfpack haven’t played a non-conference game against a Power Five since falling to Vanderbilt in the 2012 Music City Bowl. Their last regular-season game came earlier that same year, when they lost to Tennessee in the opener in Atlanta.

The last win over a current Power Five was in 2011 vs. Louisville in the Belk Bowl.

Regular-season losses in the streak consist of South Carolina (2008 and 2009), Louisville (2007) and Ohio State (2003 and 2004). With only four such regular-season games in ten seasons, NC State hasn’t given itself many opportunities to break the streak.

1. Mississippi State

Most Recent Win: Dec. 1, 2001, 41-38 vs. BYU
Next Power Five, Non-Conference Game: Oct. 15, 2016, at BYU

Mississippi State’s most recent, non-SEC, Power Five foe in the regular season came in 2013 when it fell 21-3 to No. 13 Oklahoma State in the season opener in Houston.

The Bulldogs’ last win of any kind vs. a Power Five, non-conference foe came in the 2011 Music City Bowl, a 23-17 win over Wake Forest.

MSU is another program that hasn’t given itself much of a chance to beat big-time, non-SEC opponents in the regular-season, other than the ’13 meeting with Oklahoma State action has been limited to: Georgia Tech (2008 and 2009), West Virginia (2006 and 2007) and Oregon (2002 and 2003).

BYU was still a Mountain West member when the Bulldogs beat them in 2001, making their most recent win over a team that was in a Power Five league when the two met stretch back to 1999, when it beat Oklahoma State on Sept. 18.

Amy Daughters is a contributor to FBSchedules.com.

Comments (53)

Many people technically consider them a P5 team, I know I do. Some people don’t as well. The SEC/ACC have even went as far as to claim them as a P5 opponent. They are just as competitive as the other big name independent in Notre Dame. Now they will never be Notre Dame but they are a quality challenging opponent. I give them the nod.

As a Tech fan, after watching them beat our butts twice in the past 3 years, I am perfectly fine with BYU as a “Power 5” team.

Although I understand why this website considers BYU a Power 5 team, the SEC also considers Army a Power 5 team for scheduling purposes, so the bar is pretty low as far as the SEC goes. The two conferences that refuse to go to 9 conference games are looking for an excuse to make their schedules look better than they actually are, and including BYU as a real Power 5 team is really just sleight of hand, not an indication of how good of an opponent BYU is. I’m guessing that next year the SEC will also consider UMass a Power 5 opponent since will be an independent also.

The question lies with if Army goes undefeated do they play in the playoffs, if yes then of course they are considered a P5. If Umass goes independent & plays teams from SEC/ACC/PAC-12/BIG-12 & BIG, then why not be considered P5.

Day — If Independents play the majority of their games against P5 schools, then they should be considered P5 schools for scheduling purposes (in my humble opinion of course). Although BYU does a decent job of scheduling, since becoming an independent, it’s been 4 or less for BYU. They have 5 next year, with a few games to be added, but future years look to be maxing out at 4. Notre Dame plays more than 8 every year. If you think Army does that, or that UMass will when they become independent after this year, you are fooling yourself. You’re also fooling yourself if you think that Army, UMass or BYU could play at that level and go undefeated. When was the last time that happened for any of these schools. BYU last sometime in the 80s playing a WAC schedule, Army not since WW2, and the less typed about UMass the better.

hey Jimbo how many SEC teams have scheduled Army in the past 100 years?
stop the hate

“SEC also considers Army a Power 5 team for scheduling purposes, so the bar is pretty low”

And Notre Dame is in the same boat. Are you calling them a low bar too?

Who made the p5s? The sec so the sec and acc say byu is p5 the end!
But this article has nothing to do with that! It’s about p5 schools not wining out side there conference But Colorado can even when in their conference . How are they a p5?

Noted in the article:

In this case “Power Five” applies to any team that is currently in either the ACC, Big 12, Big Ten, Pac-12 or SEC plus Notre Dame and BYU.

You can say when BYU and TCU were in the MWC they were not in a BCS conference, The P5 label came about after the end of the 2013 season which was also the end of the BCS era.

As for BYU they consistently probably as good as the bottom half of the teams in every P5 conference. Every P5 conference has teams which year in year out are far worse than BYU.

Byu is better then some in P5. Iowa State Washington State Colorado wake forest Duke Minnesota. I get sick. Of this. They should all just have a real play off no selection committee And get them from the conference championship of each conference All of them see how is the best. I’m sure. You people would be piss if BSU or BYU won cuz it’s not the status quo All the power 5 conferences have dead weight in them.

Hate to break it to you but BYU beat Miss St in 2001 to get to 12-0. Luke Staley broke his leg in that game and BYU finished 12-2 after losing at Hawaii and then to TCU in the Liberty Bowl.

BYU 41- Miss St 38, Dec 1, 2001
Miss St 44 – BYU 28, Sep 14, 2000. (Last time a team from the SEC team BYU)

One could also argue for including UConn and Cincinnati games, as they were in the Big East which was a “quality” league back then. This is interesting, but it overvalues games against Louisville and BYU. UConn and Cincy were in BCS games after all, not that long ago.

Does it really matter if programs like Kentucky, Vanderbilt Wake Forest,Syracuse Iowa State Kansas Illinois Purdue Colorado Washington State play any one OOC. Programs like these would be smart (and do their conference a favor) if the would schedule each other in OOC games.

I hope the SEC doesn’t include UMass as a P5 requirement since they will be Indy too. That would be ridiculous, just like Army is. Now BYU not so much!

It looks like the writer left Baylor off this list. The last time Baylor played a regular season game against a team from a P5 (Or BCS conference) was in 2009. The last regular season win over a OOC opponent from a P5 conference was against Wake Forest on September 5th 2009. When Baylor last played a OOC game against a team from a BCS conference was a loss on Sept 19 2009 to UConn.

During Briles stint at Baylor the only OOC games against P5/BCS teamsBaylor has only one other win. That would be against Washington State in 2008.

While true, the writer’s list is based on opponents which are currently in a P5 conference. Baylor beat TCU in 2011, a year before TCU joined the Big 12.

Correct, it was done for convenience. It would be more complicated to go back and determine which teams were P5 at the time of the game and which weren’t, especially with all of the realignment and the AAC teams no longer being considered P5.

Here is NC State’s OOC record for the last 15 years against P-5 schools
1999 – Texas w, South Carolina w
2000 – Indiana w, Minnesota (bowl) w
2001 – Indiana w, Pitt L
2002 – Texas Tech w, ND (bowl) w
2003 – Texas Tech w, Ohio State L, Kansas (bowl)w
2004 – Ohio State L
2007 – Louisville L
2008 – South Carolina L, Rutgers (bowl) L
2009 – SC L, Pitt W
2010 – West Virginia (bowl) W,
2011 – Louisville (bowl) W
2012 – Tennessee, L, Vandy (bowl) L

Jim: What does it matter if the SEC is considering Army a P5, there are absolutely no SEC teams on Army’s future schedule right now anyway. And I bet if or when the SEC does schedule Army, it will be against a Vandy, Kentucky or a Mississippi school ( I could be wrong). Meanwhile you have Penn St, Northwestern & Oklahoma on Army schedule, is the BIG or Big-12 considering Army a P5? Of course not one word when Oklahoma or a Penn St plays Army but when the SEC brings it up, all hell breaks loose.

Day – To start with, it’s hypocritical to incude Army as a P5 opponent for scheduling purposes. Neither the BIG Ten or the BIG 12 are making that claim. However, with the scheduling of Autin Peays, McNeese States, Citadels and Cherleston Southerns on the SEC schedules, Army would probably be an improvement. And I’m not defending the scheduling practices of any of the schools that you list, but they do, or soon will, play a 9 game conference schedule and the B1G is not allowing any FCS schools on the schedule in the future. As much as some top level FCS schools are better than some bottom feeder FCS schools, at least there will not be a replay of FAMU at Ohio State in the future. The SEC should have taken Baylor from Texas instead of A&M. At least they would share the same scheduling philosply as the majority of the SEC schools. When was the last time Florida schduled an OOC game against a P5 opponent outside of their home state?

Jim: Whether BIG or Big-12 is making the claim or not, Army is still on the schedule. As for Austin Peay, McNeese St, Citadel & Charleston S, these schools have played teams from the BIG, Big-12 & ACC, not just the SEC. Matter of fact I remember watching the game between McNeese St & Nebraska last year & McNeese St almost won, wouldn’t that had been something. That’s why I don’t complain about playing a FCS, sometimes these smaller schools can come into a P5 stadium & either keep it close or even win. I do agree with you, Army would be a step up. Baylor scheduling just proves that the SEC is not the only conference that does it & of course SEC gained a lot more from having Texas A&M compared to Baylor. Florida, I will not defend, I know they play FSU every year & most of the time they have home/n/home with The U. Yes, they are always playing teams in their state to keep the money close but with competitive recruiting in the state of Florida I can see why they want to stay close, not an excuse & they have a game with Michigan in Dallas in a couple of years.

But the SEC is still the only conference that contends that Army is a P5 school. And “keeping the money close” is an incredibly lame excuse. Defend the SEC all you want, but they still, as a conference, have the worst OOC scheduling of any of the P5 conferences. There are exceptions, but overall the first priority is not to schedule anyone that can beat them.

BYU has 4 P5 opponents on their schedule this year. Most P5 schools have 9-10 P5 opponents on their schedules. We should probably hold off on labeling BYU a P5 school when they play mostly G5 teams year in and year out.

Boise St., ECU, Cincinnati, and Utah St. are better than many Power 5 teams that would satisfy your Power 5 schedule criteria.

In the last 5 seasons, BYU has wins over the following Power 5 teams:
Texas (x2)
Georgia Tech (x2)
Oregon St.
Washington St.
Ole Miss

Competitive losses (10 points or fewer):
AT Notre Dame
AT Wisconsin
AT Utah
AT Virginia
AT Texas
TCU (in Arlington, Texas)

That’s better performance than many Power 5 schools.


With all due respect, the teams you listed simply are not P5 teams. When Utah and Texas Christian made the jump to a power league it was obvious that the step up in competition was significant. They had dominated a lower tier league with teams such as Connecticut, Cincinnatti, East Carolina, BYU and the like, but the week in week out power schedule initially proved too much.

BYU has struggled over the past few years with Group of 5 teams. In looking over their schedule last year I see a number of questionable losses.

Hopefully BYU will soon be able to prove their ability at the P5 level, but until then they simply cannot be considered a P5 team.

Alan, those questionable losses were immediately after our QB in the Heisman race broke his leg and our backup had to enter. Also, our starting RB was out.

Jim, here is a reality check that most college football fans fail to understand. P5 has nothing to do with performance and everything to do with how financially invested the program is in football. In a word money. What is money? In this situation it is the cost to run the program, the size of the venue where the program plays, the number of fans that show up to games, schwag sales, marketing, etc. So since you have issues with BYU being considered a P5, here are some numbers to chew on:

Stadium Size: Lavell Edwards has a current seating capacity of 63725. Compare that to all current Div I college football programs and BYU comes in 36th place amongst all Div I colleges. Considering the current P5 consist of 65 teams, BYU passes muster.

Attendance: Home game attendance dropped across the board in college football last year to their lowest numbers in 14 years. BYU at 57141 a 7% drop from previous year still comes in 33rd place amongst all Div I. Again BYU passes muster

Revenue Generated: BYU generated over 60 million in revenues last year which puts them in 41st place amongst all Div I colleges. Again BYU passes muster

Profitability: Several Studies show that only 20 NCAA Div I programs were profitable last year. BYU earned a profit of 6.6 million dollars last year. This puts them in the top twenty amongst all schools. BYU more than passes muster.
BYU keeps their costs down. Attending the university is considered one of the best economic deals in the country. A private university of BYU’s stature would normally be charging 40K per academic year in tuition. They actually charge 10 to 20 percent of that.

BYU has other assets that set them apart from all other Div I schools. What are some of these assets? (From and article in 2010) Most of these things have come to fruition since then.

A state-of-the-art, high-definition TV studio east of the Marriott Center on campus, one that rivals anything the networks have in media centers in Los Angeles and New York.

A high-definition TV truck for production and broadcast of sporting events. This truck is the most up-to-date found anywhere in the western United States and a tool ESPN has rented for events centered in the West.

BYU-TV, an up-and-operating station (since 1974) that is available on the basic entry platform of DirecTV and Dish Network and some 200 cable companies worldwide. In the U.S. alone, this represents exposure to 60 million households and an estimated 40 million more in countries in South America. BYU-TV programming has been popular to the cable and dish companies because of its demand and low cost. At present, according to BYU-TV’s mission statement, it is a non-commercial, nonprofit TV station, but it does accept sponsorships and contributions.

At present, BYU-TV programming follows a PBS-type format similar to KBYU-TV, only BYU-TV is not a PBS station. BYU-TV does have the ability to split its signal for live programming and aired 60 live sporting events this past year, including NCAA-sanctioned sports, club sports and rugby and women’s soccer in HD.

The split signal gives BYU-TV the ability to explore a commercial broadcast aside from PBS-type underwriting. The university is researching legal and licensing issues related to accepting commercial programming.

As shown by the BYU-Oklahoma game in Cowboy Stadium last fall, ESPN is a willing partner in negotiating multimillion-dollar games with BYU for football games outside the Comcast/The mtn. contract held by the MWC for home games. And it doesn’t take a brain surgeon to envision BYU/ESPN working on four or five similar games during a season.

BYU has already taken advantage of a loophole in the MWC television contract with Comcast and its partners in basketball.

This surfaced when the Cougars play games in the EnergySolutions Arena and stage those two-game preseason events in Las Vegas, where BYU-TV can roll its HD truck. BYU has only to hire a five- to 10-man sales staff to make it a commercial enterprise. Right now, it is primarily for exposure.

Texas has told the Big 12 it wants to create its own TV network, work within the umbrella of the league’s contract and get a piece of its own pie on the side.

I am told this Texas dream for an independent network is years behind what BYU has already created and has available at the push of a button and hiring a staff of salespeople for commercials.

It could take Texas almost a decade to reach the audience that BYU can deliver immediately. Some believe Texas, with all its power and influence, may never land on the basic satellite platform of DirecTV and Dish Network that BYU currently enjoys because any new network would certainly be added to a premium sports tier to nick subscribers and make it financially viable.

This is why BYU is a P5. Say what you want about performance or not being a part of a P5 Conference, but most of those schools would struggle to put together a product at this level with all the restrictions they put of themselves in the form of a honor code.

At the end of the day, BYU shows collegiate athletics the money.

Lol… You do realize BYUtv is non-profit station… Right? I could start a non-profit station tomorrow in my basement and get distribution.

You are comparing essentially a free PBS station with a Pay Per View station.

If Texas went the Non-Profit route, they could be in every household available, TOMORROW. If BYUtv went the subscriber fee route and charged what ESPN/Longhorn charge, you’d be lucky to be in 100K homes.

Sorry, do you not realize is silly that you are using a Non-Profit station as your longest argument why BYU is a P5. (For the record I think BYU is P5 level, but this has to be the dumbest argument I have ever heard as to why)

Also, profit is a horrible metric to use as well. San Jose had a bigger profit than Penn State, Tennessee and Iowa COMBINED… Do you really think that means San Jose State is more of a P5 school, or a better program than Penn State, Tennesee and Iowa? Of course not. Profit is a meaningless metric, in fact sometimes it says something negative about your program. The reason why Penn State has a smaller profit that San Jose State, is because they invest over 100 million back into their program. They could easily have a program that mirrored San Jose State and have a 90 million profit every year. Instead they choose to invest in their program which is why they are a superior program to the San Jose State’s of the world.

Ha! Wow, you byu fans love to spin things in whatever direction you want to help you sleep at night don’t you?!
Byu will never have the athletes to compete in the P5, period. They will win a game or two against a mediocre P5 team here and there but so does UCF or Cincinatti. The religion they belong to can put lipstick on their pig with butts in seats and a little extra money but that doesn’t change the fact they don’t and can’t get the athletes and depth to compete. And trust me, even if they got invited to big 12 or something, their recruiting isnt gonna get better, they are who they are. Most non lds arent going to go for that honor code nonsense. So you and whoever write these articles can keep spinning byus standing in college football because a couple conferences included them in a list of acceptable teams to schedule ooc cuz they are in need of ‘quality’ teams to schedule but just remember that Army is in that list as well so that should tell you all you need to know. Notre Dame is ND so they automatically are considered P5 but if byu were too they would be invited to a P5 conference and that clearly isnt happening. Its really as simple as that!

Sam Snead, ummm, wow I guess ignorance is alive and well in your neck of the woods. If Texas went non profit they would not be in every home tomorrow. That is writer hyperbole or you’re talking out your rear end. Secondly, byutv now receives advertising revenues. Texas wants what BYU has thus their multiple trips to Provo to learn from them how to do this. ESPN has already utilized their facility as well as hd truck for broadcasting.

If you knew anything about establishing a broadcasting footprint you would understand the reason why ESPN lives their relationship with BYU.

San Jose is not profitable as an athletic department. Nice try. Only twenty programs last year were in the black. Penn state was one of them, San Jose was not.

Joarm, please the my athletes are better than yours rhetoric is stale and irrelevant. If that were the case explain to me why programs like Indiana, Vanderbilt, wake forest, Iowa state, etc are P5. Get over your hate. It’s juvenile.

Because Vanderbilt, wake forest, Iowa state. Etc. can get athletes. Team speed in other words. Byu gets a good athlete here and there (Taysom hill, etc.) but will never have the team speed that even those programs have. It all comes down to players on the field and byus nonexistent showings in the draft yearly are another sign. The game is completely different then it used to be and its not 1988 anymore. There is a reason why byu hasn’t got invited and as much as byu fans wanna say it’s religious bigotry, the main reason is because the ppl behind the scenes that make these expansion decisions can see that byu is fundamentally flawed at the most basic of levels: athletes! And it all boils down to athletes! Maybe John Fan from Arkansas who doesn’t pay attention to byu closely but sees they have a decent program doesn’t see this flaw of byus and the only thing that pops up in his head when byu gets mentioned is 1980s byu so he says ‘sure they shld be p5! Why not?,’ but the powers that be do and byu is where they should be. It’s a new era.

DJRoss, I point out facts and you go straight to insults. Wow. you really represent your University well. Class act.

Here is the link to the financials from 2014… As you can see San Jose State makes a larger profit than the three schools I listed combined. What I said was absolutely true. Here is the link: http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/

Where are your links?

Second, I don’t care if BYUtv makes advertising revenue. That has zero to do with what I said. BYUtv does not charge the carriage fees to companies like Dish Network and Directv that the Longhorn Network does. That is a fact. They are not allowed to as a Non-Profit.

If Longhorn Network were not charging those fees, every cable company in America would be begging for them to be on their network. They would be there TOMORROW.

Likewise, if BYUtv charged those fees, than they would not be in very many homes. Ask any TV exec and they will tell you the same.

Texas coming to see how BYU runs their TV operation has zero to do with distribution.

Sam Snead, I think you need to revisit your own link. SJSU had to rely on *seventeen million dollars* in tax-payer subsidies to make that $1M profit.

Sam, do us a favor and Google “San Jose State 2014 Budget.” You’ll find the athletic department revenues on page 24. They generated a whopping grand total of $7,824,450 from athletic operations, versus expenses of $24M. Believe it or not, but 7.8 is less than 24. That’s NOT a profit, as the other poster correctly mentioned. You didn’t really believe that tiny program actually created a $25M income stream, did you?

Cameron, so what? Everyone gets subsidies. BYU gets subsidized by the Mormon Church and it’s members. It still does not effect what is considered a profit.

But we are not as far apart as you think. In fact you kind of made my point. You point to SJSU’s weak revenue… And that is my point.

Profit margin is a horrible way to look at program strength, as many of the good programs reinvest back into their program making them stronger, but having a smaller profit margin. If a major program has a smaller profit margin than BYU, because they invested 100 million in a new athletics center where BYU did not, do you really think that makes BYU a stronger program?

Revenue is a much better way to look at program strength.

And as I sad before, I consider BYU a P5 level program. But that still does not mean that arguments made by DJ Ross are not some of the dumbest I have ever seen on the internet… Because they are.

The moment someone makes an attempt to compare a non-profit station’s distribution with a subscriber based station—well sorry, they are reaching at best…

DJRoss – you mentioned BYU and Oklahoma played in Cowboys stadium last fall. I don’t remember that.

Very poorly researched article. None of it is reliable, even when the mistakes are pointed out, Amy can’t make a correction. I’m still waiting to find out the difference between Big East teams Pitt and Louisville. :(

Incorrect. I responded to your email with an explanation but you continue to ignore the fact that the records listed are based on current conference alignment and include only regular-season games. The copy below each team deviates from that, however, to provide additional information.